Identity - who are we?

Identity - who are we?

[Back to Human Identity]

There is so much talk these days about identity, arguments about whether people should be able to identify in ways that feel natural to themselves, even when it challenges the norms that the majority of society has evolved to accept. I’m thinking here of gender identity. However, perhaps our reactions, positive, negative or ambivalent are merely the tip of the iceberg in terms of how we are as human beings.

What is our identity? Is how we see ourselves the same as how others see us? Or something else? Does identity have any meaning out side of relationship? Identity is certainly a major way in which we describe belonging to a community; to be part of one we need to see our identity reflected back by others. We need to feel part of the social order rather than excluded from it.

Is identity synonymous with how we present ourselves, how we are identified by others? If so then we could postulate that our identity is in a constant state of flux, depending on who we are with and all sorts of extraneous factors that could affect how we are perceived and how we perceive ourselves. Or is there a ‘core identity’ that is immutable and perhaps hidden by a glass darkly, something beyond even our own capability to assimilate and understand? 

Advertising agencies build identity profiles of their target audiences, using various techniques to try and ensure the maximum return on investment, which clearly shows a form of categorisation into 'identity types'. Various personality tools have been developed over the years, such as the well known Myers Briggs Type Indicator, all seeking to pin down which category people fit into, albeit with well publicised questions regarding their usefulness or accuracy.

I think it is beyond reasonable doubt that who we are is shaped, perhaps dominated by our genetic inheritance, our experience of life, the people, events and circumstances we have encountered along the way. How we see ourselves is perhaps only meaningful in the context of how we think other people identify us, and conversely how we identify others. A sort of categorisation which helps us to make sense of the world and our interactions with others. This is also subject to subjugation by circumstance; if our home is burning down we listen to the firefighter not our best friend, we don’t care about any other aspects of their identity only their special skill.

I’m sure I’m not alone in realising that we consciously and unconsciously decide how to present ourselves depending on who we are with. We don’t launch into a big discussion on philosophy with a person in the checkout queue in the supermarket, but we might with a friend over a glass of wine. We often find ourselves performing to the audience, hoping to leave a good impression. Of course we all know that communication is not just about outputs, but largely inputs, listening is crucial. However do we make more of an effort to listen if the person(s) we are with are more important to us?

Should we be concerned about how others see and perceive us? If we are seeking to effect and model changes in attitude and mindset, I suggest that how we are perceived is of vital importance, and so we have to make sure we tailor how we present and what we say in order to attempt resonance with those we are communicating with; understanding how that person categorises themselves is perhaps vitally important.

How we are perceived by others has a very large influence on how what we say and do is received; we all bring baggage into our interactions with others.

So should we seek to present ourselves in ways that makes us more appreciated and heard, or should we be completely honest (even if that’s only about the things that we can verbalise, for example our sexuality, skills, interests as examples) and just be ourselves and leave other peoples’ reactions to them?

Our answers to these questions have huge implications.

In extremis a religious believer, to whom faith and belief is a central part of how they may identify/describe themselves, honesty could result in persecution and even death in a community hostile to that religion, or an LGBTQ person who is honest in a harsh fundamentalist community would also likely pay a high price.

So does pragmatism require us to be dishonest or at least discreet?

Of course this isn’t just about ourselves and how we choose to protect ourselves.

Many times, if we consider ourselves to be a decent human being and we hope our identity is rooted in a care for others, compassion and a sense of justice, being true to that will, and perhaps should, cause us to be at risk of at best ridicule, or at worst serious physical harm if we seek to come to the defence of others.

So who are we? The person we think we are, or the person that others see us as? Or maybe we are different things to different people (including ourselves), because we are perceived differently by different people depending on their world views.

Those who subscribe to a theist faith may believe we are something beyond our own experience, made in the image of God for Abrahamic religions. But in many ways this is a sidestep because few believers can agree on what God is like except in vague terms (e.g. omniscient, all seeing, all knowing) – and humans are certainly not any of those things. Many would fall back on the similarity being consciousness, some may say our identity is founded around free will, and in that way we are in the image of God. Yet even that is open to foundational challenge by our modern understanding of how brains operate and human psychology.

There is also the very dangerous contention that how we perceive others, and how that perception can be manipulated into tribalism and fear/hate/resentment of whole groups of people whom are identified as belonging to different tribe/caste/race/political party/social class, which if allowed to persist can do tremendous harm not just to those who end up being the persecuted, but also I think to the nature of humanity itself. As a friend observed when she kindly read this short essay “The similarity between both nationalism and populism is the need to divide between ‘us’ and ‘them’. In populism the person is either the ‘elite’ or ‘every man’ and in nationalism the person is either a ‘citizen’ or the ‘outsider’. Each is imbued with certain qualities like threat and hate or safety and like-mindedness. Does this speak to how our identity only appears relative to an (imagined or real) other?”.

It is interesting, for example, how easy the victors found it to punish those found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity after WW2, yet the much longer, and hugely damaging crimes against enslaved African people in the USA resulted in no bringing to justice of those guilty of them. Even after slavery was abolished, people still got away with lynchings and other appalling treatment of those they considered lesser creatures. Indeed the compensation was paid to slave owners rather than the slaves themselves.

So what is it about human beings that means it is so easy for unscrupulous people to manipulate whole populations into treating others so appallingly based on caricatures of identity, which we can probably, if we are honest, see in ourselves, even when we try not to. Whether that’s based on a person’s appearance, their politics, the way they speak or anything else.

Identity, and who we are, has some physical features (colour of the skin being an obvious example, but how we speak, how we dress are others). Some we are born with some we have learnt.

So I don’t think identity is the key moral and ethical issue here, it is how we treat other people irrespective of the way they appear to us (which as I’ve already suggested, is both how we perceive them and how they are seeking to present). Do we treat a black person differently because they are black, do we treat people differently based on their sexual or gender identity? Do we respond to an aggressive looking shaved headed teenager differently to a mild mannered youth you meet in the fish & chip shop? Clearly the answer is yes we do, it is probably impossible not to. But should we also try to see through the subconscious and conscious perception barriers?

I think we can change how we behave by exposing ourselves to different ideas and thinking, being willing to become more self aware, and conscious of how others are perceiving us and how our perceptions of them, whether true or not, could be affecting them. Our background and life experience will certainly influence how we leap to judgment, but we can consciously challenge that in ourselves.

So I’d rather focus on how we behave when we are challenged by how others identify. Why people may adopt a particular identity can and should be discussed in order to further understanding, both scientific and social, but using it as a reason to segregate, treat differently or at worst persecute can never be right. And challenging the legitimacy of how a person chooses to identify is always counter productive. Seek understanding rather than judgement.

It may be that the way we use identity now has become highly individualistic, the categorisations can be claimed or assigned in ways that share little in terms of wider social shared understanding, but are embraced by those who share significant emotional resonance. The loyalty to a particular understanding (or the perceived threat by others of that understanding) can have the very real capability to generate hostility and hold back a wider social understanding. It is important not to confuse disagreement for disloyalty.

As a friend who kindly reviewed this document for me put it, “Gender is a major issue not because civil principles are unclear but because the core thinking, the complex amalgam of science, medicine, social contract, moral philosophy, personal choice and so on is nowhere near mature. We are not really clear about the extent to which personal choice can be defining at anything much deeper than a stylistic level. It has some level of aesthetic sense but it is going to take a lot more work and mutual honesty before it becomes a moral definition any higher than baby-morals (don't be nasty to others because they are different). Unfortunately the political and legal pressures are combining to shut down the very conversation we need to be having”.

I absolutely agree we need to be having the conversation, but would probably not go as far as him in suggesting “My guess is that we are fifty years too early in our politicisation of the issue”, as I don’t think we can choose when politicisation happens, nor do I think we should tolerate laws that make people’s lives worse for no reason. The law surely needs to reflect the Golden Rule; there can be no justification for inflicting legal constraints on people when there is no adverse harm inflicted by not doing so. I’m not sure anything we could learn could improve ‘moral definitions’ or even mature our understanding. Yes, the understanding needs to be socialised, but I am reminded that there were many similar objections to the various stages in the legalisation of gay relationships; people saying we are unsure whether you are born gay, choose being gay or have been made gay. Is our understanding any different now? Has the change in the law had any adverse affects? There are clear moral questions around things such as gender reassignment for those below the age of consent, particularly irreversible interventions, but no different than the serious questions raised by horrific genital mutilation of both girls and boys in various religious faiths and cultures around the world, when parents are seeking to impose their identity on their children. However when interventions are sensitively and carefully managed by caring and compassionate people, much anguish can be avoided. Denying any intervention at all when a person is clearly needing help is far more of an ethical affront than assisting with appropriate reversible means supported by the law and the various health services.

However, the morality of law is a different big discussion, perhaps for another time.

It seems to me that often times the issue comes to the fore when people seek changes in the law in order to legally recognise identity paradigms. Gender identity is a clear modern example, but the same social conflict was there when people rightly tried to get equality for women, black people, gay people. The politics of identity is central to how we should approach so many (perhaps all) areas of public policy including immigration or whether and how we approach armed conflict.

So much of our society is structured around identity (political parties being a good example), that seeking to find collaborative and sustainable fair ways forward in so many arenas is hamstrung from the beginning.

Historical legacy is also hugely important in understanding how we have arrived at this point. Law is based around heteronormative ideas; racial subjugation is baked into our understanding of gender. So much was imposed on other cultures through colonisation, e.g. the relationship between men and women, heterosexuality, the ‘family unit’. There are many examples where prior to colonisation understandings and practices were very different.

Recognising our own limitations (which is also part of our identity!) as well as the limitations of others would be a good starting point. Embracing the generic traits of human beings before isolating specific differences would make a huge difference.

So the socialists could admit that human nature means that socialism has an inherent flaw – when people get power they often cease to be as concerned for the common good. Those who believe that capitalism is the answer could also recognise the same trait, that power often brings greed and selfishness and that for every winner, there has to be a loser. Pure ideology is nearly always self corrupting.

Recognising and embracing identity difference could and should be our biggest defence against fundamentalism and conflict.

Mark Collins
28th February 2024

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  •  PDF version of response

    I broadly agree with everything you say here, Mark.   It’s a long article and I have had to read it in chunks - this response here has been started more than once!   But hopefully, I’ve arrived now. 

    Clearly, this whole area is very much a heartfelt issue for most people, particularly anyone who feels they are more on the margins of society than not.   I’m not going to go through every point you make here, except for a few specifics.

    You ask some core questions right at the very beginning:

    1. What is identity?
    2. Is how we see ourselves the same as how others see us?
    3. Does our identity have any meaning outside of relationship?

    The answers to these questions I think frame the whole issue - in a personal and subjective way, of course.   For me, identity is quite a complex matter - but its broadly aligned with a sense of self, my own personal likes, dislikes, personal preferences and how I can act within and upon the world with others.   With identity also comes a sense of purpose and being.  So it's about what we value, how we reflexively see ourselves and how others see us.   It can be incredibly hurtful when someone gets an idea about who we are and what we believe, that is not in accord with who we think we are.   Self-esteem and our general health and well-being is very much bound up and affected by identity issues.  It’s at the same time incredibly personal and speaks to the very core of our being, whilst also being about how we relate to others and how they relate to us.   Inevitably, our genetic makeup and our early childhood experiences have a significant influence on what shapes our identity and our self-perception, as does education and social normative behaviour.  This leads neatly into the next question …

    My response to your second question is a qualified “no” – for me, there is a general back-and-forth here where we seem to “normalise” and adapt our own self-perception of who we think we are in accordance with those that we most respect and feel that we “identify” with.  We have no doubt all had that experience of hearing someone elses opinion, someone that we respect, then feeling challenged by what they said to the extent that we adapt what we ourselves think to align more with what they think - but not too much!  Our own opinions are malleable and normative to some extent – we give “the benefit of the doubt” to our friends and give them some leeway.   At the end of the day, we can figure out what we agree with for ourselves, although our friend's opinions can matter and affect where we end up.  I’m not saying that always happens or that we always “make up our minds” like that – but when we do, it hardens our resolve to stand for those views and opinions.

    My response to your third question is a qualified “yes” – for me, an important point is that even in the absence of friends and others one feels one can align with, one still has a sense of self and of inner resolve and purpose.  However, the core point here is that one’s interactions with other people and the groups one identifies with (or not) clearly have a massive impact on our identity as seen by others.  Religious beliefs also shape our identity, not just with those of similar beliefs (or not), but also with how we believe we relate to the presence of the divine in our lives (or not).   We are inevitably part of many different groupings - but we also have rejected certain other groupings because they don’t sit right with us.  All of this can lead to all sorts of complexities because these groups I see myself in will naturally overlap (or avoid) other groups.  Thoughts along these lines led me to find out about something called “social identity theory” - which I learnt has had a major impact on social psychology over the last few decades concerning the psychology of prejudice.   I found these YouTube videos to be quite helpful on this:

     

     

    I’d just like finish by commenting on some of the points you make in your article (your text is in italics)

    What is our identity? Is how we see ourselves the same as how others see us? Or something else? Does identity have any meaning outside of relationship? Identity is certainly a major way in which we describe belonging to a community; to be part of one we need to see our identity reflected back by others. We need to feel part of the social order rather than excluded from it.

    I’ve talked about this one above. 

    Is identity synonymous with how we present ourselves, how we are identified by others? If so then we could postulate that our identity is in a constant state of flux, depending on who we are with and all sorts of extraneous factors that could affect how we are perceived and how we perceive ourselves. Or is there a ‘core identity’ that is immutable and perhaps hidden by a glass darkly, something beyond even our own capability to assimilate and understand? 

    Identity being synonymous with how we present ourselves is a somewhat Skinner-like behaviouristic notion.  I find myself more aligned with the idea of some kind of core identity, but having this chameleon-like tendency to shape our behaviour to “fit-in” with who we are with.   Inevitably, people with a different personality type will come up with different responses to that one.

    Should we be concerned about how others see and perceive us? If we are seeking to effect and model changes in attitude and mindset, I suggest that how we are perceived is of vital importance, and so we have to make sure we tailor how we present and what we say in order to attempt resonance with those we are communicating with; understanding how that person categorises themselves is perhaps vitally important.

    How we are perceived by others has a very large influence on how what we say and do is received; we all bring baggage into our interactions with others.

    So should we seek to present ourselves in ways that makes us more appreciated and heard, or should we be completely honest (even if that’s only about the things that we can verbalise, for example our sexuality, skills, interests as examples) and just be ourselves and leave other peoples’ reactions to them?

    I think it's difficult not to - for exactly the reasons you gave.

    Our answers to these questions have huge implications.

    In extremis a religious believer, to whom faith and belief is a central part of how they may identify/describe themselves, honesty could result in persecution and even death in a community hostile to that religion, or an LGBTQ person who is honest in a harsh fundamentalist community would also likely pay a high price.

    So does pragmatism require us to be dishonest or at least discreet?

    I hope discreet rather than directly dishonest.   It can be a fine line, particularly with friends who one knows do not share some of your own core beliefs and attitudes.   What I think happens, at least speaking for myself, is not to highlight the differences - but to instead stress similarities and commonalities.

    Of course this isn’t just about ourselves and how we choose to protect ourselves.

    Many times, if we consider ourselves to be a decent human being and we hope our identity is rooted in a care for others, compassion and a sense of justice, being true to that will, and perhaps should, cause us to be at risk of at best ridicule, or at worst serious physical harm if we seek to come to the defence of others.

    So who are we? The person we think we are, or the person that others see us as? Or maybe we are different things to different people (including ourselves), because we are perceived differently by different people depending on their world views.

    I know that this sounds strange - we are all of those things - and yet none of them, as it depends upon who is doing the looking.   To ourselves, we are who we think we are, nothing more, nothing less.   To everyone else, I guess its broadly similar to how anyone sees anyone else - as we look at things like friendship, what they say, what they know, what they do and how they interact with others, so all of that will influence how they regard us back.

    There is also the very dangerous contention that how we perceive others, and how that perception can be manipulated into tribalism and fear/hate/resentment of whole groups of people whom are identified as belonging to different tribe/caste/race/political party/social class, which if allowed to persist can do tremendous harm not just to those who end up being the persecuted, but also I think to the nature of humanity itself.

    Great point.  Social Identity theory suggests that tribalism and such like is a default “built-in” response - in some sense, human perception can’t help but create groupings, even when they aren’t meaningful (see videos mentioned earlier).

    This means that we have to exert an explicit act of attitude correction to counteract the natural tendency to make prejudicial judgements - this is the only way, short of reprogramming the human psyche.  Wisdom and benevolent attitudes unfortunately don’t come naturally - they will require an explicit act of will – and education.

    As a friend observed when she kindly read this short essay “The similarity between both nationalism and populism is the need to divide between ‘us’ and ‘them’. In populism the person is either the ‘elite’ or ‘every man’ and in nationalism the person is either a ‘citizen’ or the ‘outsider’. Each is imbued with certain qualities like threat and hate or safety and like-mindedness. Does this speak to how our identity only appears relative to an (imagined or real) other?”.

    Identity becomes a powerful driving issue because of how human perception works.   It is possible to overcome these natural perceptual biases - but only though explicit education and understanding that better, more respectful ways of appreciating others results in a better social dynamic overall.   The infamous “wokeness” epithet has become controversial because of the perception that “un-deserving minorities” are being disproportionately favoured above the people who should rightfully receive their dues.

    So I don’t think identity is the key moral and ethical issue here, it is how we treat other people irrespective of the way they appear to us (which as I’ve already suggested, is both how we perceive them and how they are seeking to present). Do we treat a black person differently because they are black, do we treat people differently based on their sexual or gender identity? Do we respond to an aggressive looking shaved headed teenager differently to a mild mannered youth you meet in the fish & chip shop? Clearly the answer is yes we do, it is probably impossible not to. But should we also try to see through the subconscious and conscious perception barriers?

    I think we can change how we behave by exposing ourselves to different ideas and thinking, being willing to become more self aware, and conscious of how others are perceiving us and how our perceptions of them, whether true or not, could be affecting them. Our background and life experience will certainly influence how we leap to judgment, but we can consciously challenge that in ourselves.

    Exactly!  That conscious challenge is necessary to overcome the powerful shaping induced by human perception.

    So I’d rather focus on how we behave when we are challenged by how others identify. Why people may adopt a particular identity can and should be discussed in order to further understanding, both scientific and social, but using it as a reason to segregate, treat differently or at worst persecute can never be right. And challenging the legitimacy of how a person chooses to identify is always counter productive.

    An important point.   Because of the primacy of human perception, when any one expresses an identity that is counter to human perception - for example, when someone expresses a gender or sexuality difference through “coming out” or whatever  – there is going to be a natural tendency to treat them differently.   This is unfortunately entirely inevitable and “builtin”.  Equally inevitable, this must be explicitly countered and corrected for through education and explicit attitude correction.

    There are also those who have phobic attitudes and behaviors because of a perceived positive discrimination towards minorities within society – this is the perception that others are adopting a particular identity purely to gain some kind of social advantage or priviledged access.  A classic example of this may be the highly negative reaction of some to immigrants being assigned lodgings and receiving benefits - even though the actual situation will often involve severe ongoing hardships and/or a harrowing arrival journey here.  Another example are attitudes to minorities who have a perceived higher social status, seen by some as being undeserved (e.g. anti-semitism) – again, the actual reality is probably nothing like the prejudiced perception. 

    The problem with this kind of phobic thinking in particular is that it doesn’t understand or recognise the cost for anyone to either have adopted a particular identity - or to have lived their entire life with it.  It isn’t “easy” or “trivial” to adopt such identities - it can be massively costly to the individual concerned - as well as their friends and relations.

    All the above being said, there is a part of me that says that just because one sees oneself in a particular manner (e.g. having a particular identity), does that necessarily mean that others necessarily have to defer to my wishes concerning how one should/must be treated?   For example, there is the frequent demand by some that people must respect their choice of preferred pronouns which are, in my case, he/him/his.  I understand how offensive it would be not to have one’s personal identity so basically affirmed – so I am generally happy to adopt preferred pronouns as and when they are known.  After all, it is really just good manners and a courtesy to comply with such a request, putting people at ease and giving them comfort.

    However, there is perhaps an element of one being required to arbitrarily defer to someone elses wishes here – which seems wrong to me.  After all, what about people just turning round and demanding to be (quite ridiculously) addressed as Sir or Your highness, or even Master?   One may complain that such a demand would be utterly silly – but then that could provoke a further claim to be highly offended, and so on.   I think due care needs to be taken here, as it seems to be mostly about the social mores, norms and codes of what constitutes good interpersonal behaviour, rather than anything more formal.

    Seek understanding rather than judgement.

    Exactly!!!   Couldn’t agree more.

    As a friend who kindly reviewed this document for me put it, “Gender is a major issue not because civil principles are unclear but because the core thinking, the complex amalgam of science, medicine, social contract, moral philosophy, personal choice and so on is nowhere near mature. We are not really clear about the extent to which personal choice can be defining at anything much deeper than a stylistic level. It has some level of aesthetic sense but it is going to take a lot more work and mutual honesty before it becomes a moral definition any higher than baby-morals (don't be nasty to others because they are different).   Unfortunately the political and legal pressures are combining to shut down the very conversation we need to be having”.

    A core part of the antagonists case here is their apparent trivialisation of identity concerns and the perception that it doesn’t cost much for those holding such an identity (c.f. freeloading).  On the contrary, identity is obviously a fundamental concern for the individual and taking on another identity has profound and often costly consequences.   People do this because they hope that they will be more at home with themselves with their adopted identity.  Often, staying the way they presently are feels dishonest and lacking in personal integrity.  

    I absolutely agree we need to be having the conversation, but would probably not go as far as him in suggesting “My guess is that we are fifty years too early in our politicisation of the issue”, as I don’t think we can choose when politicisation happens, nor do I think we should tolerate laws that make people’s lives worse for no reason.

    Identity is obviously a political issue and has been for centuries, albeit as more of a subtext to other political struggles (c.f. slavery, universal suffrage).

    However, the morality of law is a different big discussion, perhaps for another time.

    Recognising our own limitations (which is also part of our identity!) as well as the limitations of others would be a good starting point. Embracing the generic traits of human beings before isolating specific differences would make a huge difference.

    So the socialists could admit that human nature means that socialism has an inherent flaw – when people get power they often cease to be as concerned for the common good. Those who believe that capitalism is the answer could also recognise the same trait, that power often brings greed and selfishness and that for every winner, there has to be a loser. Pure ideology is nearly always self corrupting.

    Recognising and embracing identity difference could and should be our biggest defence against fundamentalism and conflict.

    Absolutely - couldn’t have said it better.


    Ultimately, the issue comes down to affording everyone a common, basic level of respect that acknowledges their humanity, whoever they maybe.

    Response to Mark's article on Identity.pdf
    Shared with Dropbox
    • Thanks Brian for this thoughtful response.  Lots to discuss tonight!

  •  I've had a very pleasant phone call this afternoon and follow up reviewing a presentation for a good friend regarding Spirituality.

    It has struck me that what people often describe as spirituality is in reality our identity as viewed from within ourselves. The person we think we are in our own heads - our spiritual experience could be said to be what's going on in our brain.

    What do people think?

    • Interesting idea, Mark.   In a trivial sense, what you said is something of a truism - because anything going on in our head will necessarily look like brain activity!  However, more deeply, it surely must depend on your own core beliefs, though, as to what you think is happening to you.  Your statement might explain why many New Agers, Buddhists and others feel that they can attain Enlightenment or some kind of self-divinity through their own efforts, with the aid of gurus and so on.  I know that Sam Harris has written on the topic of Spirituality Without Religion - I have it on Kindle - but haven't read it yet:   https://www.amazon.co.uk/Waking-Up-Searching-Spirituality-Religion/...

      Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion: Amazon.co.uk: Harris, Sam: 9781784160029: B…
      Buy Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion 1 by Harris, Sam (ISBN: 9781784160029) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and f…
  • Mark, and Richard:

    Mark – a great summary! There are a lot of aspects to the identity question so I am only going to reply to a couple for now.

    Firstly, Richard’s comments on white male identity:  

    Richard, you don’t need to feel guilty just for being a white middle-aged man! I don’t! If you have ever been racist, or misogynistic, which I’m sure you try not to be, then feel guilty for that. Or more constructively, accept how you need to change, apologise to anyone you have hurt, repent, and move on. But we are not responsible for what our ancestors did, even if (for instance) we can identify specific ancestors who were slave-owners. It is right to feel ashamed or angry about what they did, but that is different to accepting any personal guilt. We stand or fall by our own actions not by those of others. Paying reparations as a country might be appropriate, but given the present state of the economy I am not inclined to prioritize it. I worked in the NHS in London for 30 years; sometimes I was the only white person in a meeting of twenty of so people. Of course some of my attitudes were racist and probably still are, but when I become aware of them, I repent and try to change because I know that racism is wrong. But no-one ever accused me of being racist, and since most of my black colleagues were decent sensible people they never made me feel ashamed of being white.

    To use a logic exercise: Suppose I did apologise profusely on behalf of a white ancestor whom I knew to be a slave trader and asked for forgiveness from the community concerned. And suppose we then had a séance, and brought back this slave trader, and he said that he was not in the least sorry for what he had done, that everyone else had slaves at the time, there was nothing wrong with it and anyway the bible says that slavery is alright (which it does in at least some places). In that case my apology would count for nothing. And while I don’t believe in séances, I have little doubt that that is what would happen if we did have one. We can’t change the past. I am me; my ancestors are them.

    And anyway: while Britain has much to be ashamed of for our imperial past – the Bengal famine being a recent example – we were not the worst. Of course that doesn’t mean we were good enough, but there is room for a balanced view. We were among the first white-majority countries to ban slavery, in 1833, before France or the USA. (In the USA slavery is still legal for convicted prisoners in custody). Apparently the Grand Duchy of Lithuania banned slavery in the 14th Century (according to Wikipedia) but the King of Belgium kept slaves in the Congo until 1908. And regarding our Empire, when we realised the game was up after WW2, we let the Empire go with much less violence than many other countries: we did not fight the same colonial wars to keep our Empire that France did in Algeria, or Portugal in Angola and Mozambique.

    This hand-wringing guilt about our past is why the likes of Putin, and probably Trump, and the Islamic extremists, are laughing at us. We feel guilty about the bad things and refuse to acknowledge the good, or less bad, things that we have done. A few years ago the rise of tolerant, liberal democracy (people like us!) seemed inevitable. Now it is no longer inevitable. Populist discontent at what it perceives as liberal elites are on the rise, including in Britain. “The best lack all conviction, the worst are full of passionate intensity [Yeates]”.

    Turning to Mark’s essay on identity: I agree with most of it. Identity is a mixture of our genes and our upbringing, of our relationships with other people and with something innate to the individual. Some people that I know have a very weak sense of their own identity and so are overly emotionally dependent on other people. Others have a definite internal sense of their identity, but “no man is an island”. A person stranded on a desert island will still have an identity, but however strong it is, they are still missing the human interaction that makes for a large part of our identities.

    So, to take the bull by the horns: gender identity. I have had to think about this more than I might have done as my elder daughter identifies as gender-fluid. She likes to use the pronoun “they”, but she/they are not militant about it: they don’t make it a big deal if I accidentally call them “good girl” when we have a hug (which I still do even though she is 28!), and they have stated “don’t worry, I’m not going to have my boobs cut off!” But I do wonder about why it has suddenly become a prominent issue. I accept that there have always been people who identified with a gender other than what they were born with. As an ex-mental health nurse I know that there has always been a diagnosis of gender dysphoria. I knew some clients with this diagnosis: it was often distressing for them, but maybe other people’s reaction was the cause of their distress. Maybe it should no longer be a mental health diagnosis. But is the reason that it has become apparently more prevalent simply due to pent-up demand and reduced stigmatization as it becomes more acceptable; or is it exaggerated by on-line pressure groups who give some adolescents a group identity, just as in the past young people including myself found an identity in left-wing politics, or environmental activism? I don’t know which of these is more true; I accept that it may be the first. But identity is stronger if you feel that you are a victim of discrimination. I do think that there should be a minimum age at which people should be allowed to have surgery or medication that would be irrevocable, and should have appropriate counselling first. Certainly there are cases of people regretting such surgery. And the clashes with the rights of other discriminated-against groups won’t go away. My child admits that the issue of trans-women competing in women’s sporting events and having an increased chance of winning is not an issue to which there is an easy answer. Cis-women have fought for decades for their own rights, and those rights ought also to be respected, or at least held in balance. The prevalence of women being assaulted in toilets or safe spaces by trans-women or people pretending to be trans-women is probably exaggerated, but if the majority of women are unhappy about what they feel is an invasion of their privacy, should this be disregarded? But should genuine trans-women be forced to use male toilets, where they are probably more likely to be assaulted? How much credence should be given to a person self-identifying as a different gender to that assigned at birth? Should we accept a person’s feelings alone? Is there really a difference between sex and gender? Or should we say that if you have a Y chromosome you are a man? And that the women’s toilets issue should be decided by the “greatest good of the greatest number”? The problem with that kind of Utilitarianism is that it can be used to over-ride minority rights. If change needs only the prejudices of the majority to change to become real, then perhaps the change can and should happen, but if there are genuine concerns among the majority for their safety, privacy or livelihood, maybe they should not be over-ruled. I don’t have an easy answer to all this and it there is certainly not a simplistic one (it is would-be dictators of the right and left who have simplistic answers). But the genie is out of the bottle and won’t go back in.

    Adrian Roberts

    March 2024

    • Quite a lot I could comment on here Adrian.

      I think the toilet question and 'safe spaces for women' is a red herring. The risk to women from trans women (or men from trans men) or straight men from gay men or straight women from lesbians has been shown to be tiny.  Perhaps we should have unisex toilets anyway....  Anyway, all public spaces should be safe for everyone? There are always going to be those that cause a danger to others, I don't think worrying about a specific group of people as a 'danger' and singling them out is helpful at all.

      There is a lot of very careful work being done to help young transgender people, and those too young to make surgical decisions typically, after counselling and careful discussion by professional specialist doctors, are given puberty blockers to allow the decisions to be taken later when the person is older.  Outcomes are much better if surgical interventions are done prior to puberty.  Given proper funding the mechanisms for all this are already in place, I've asked a friend who is deeply involved in caring for trans people about this, and surgical intervention is not ever recommended for children.

      So in answer to your last question - I don't think there are genuine concerns for safety, privacy or livelihood.  There are people who are fearful of these things, the fear is real, but I think they are substantially groundless and lacking in evidence to support them.  Just as there are people that fear what innoculations can do to them.  We have to accept that sometimes we have to try and help people understand, but if they still don't then we have to proceed without their blessing.

      Rather like one of my school RE teachers said when asked about gay people, he said in his experience they were not gay but very sad. He didn't for one minute suggest we discuss why they might be sad - his implication was that they were sad because they were gay (i.e. different), not because the majority treated them badly and made them feel sad.  This is why I find the presence of Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERF) among the Lesbian community so surprising, it seems to demonstrate and extraordinary lack of empathy and an inability to make comparisons with their own history.

    • Mark 

      Some of the reasons that people don't want to change seems to be a human tendency to define their identity according to current habits and norms. This can be as simple as very quickly using the same desk at work, or pew in a church, and feeling discomforted if someone else gets there first. I am of a generation that took to desktop and laptop computers fairly readily, but now feels a prejudice against people who are constantly on their smartphones - even though I am a heavy user of my own smartphone. And to get closer to our discussion, we now have feminists who have rightly campaigned for women's rights for years but now seem unable to cope with trans rights, and gay people who are prejudiced against bisexual people. 

      I haven't been involved in transgender counselling of young people in my career, but I hope that the counselling is as thorough as you suggest. Using puberty blockers in the way that you describe may well be helpful, so long puberty will continue normally if they are stopped. It seems to me that a decision to transition seems so huge, especially if it involves surgery, that the counselling should help them see both sides of the consequences, with no agenda to steer them towards transitioning or away from it, especially if the young person is neuro-divergent in some other way, such as being autistic. And I do think the parents should be involved in discussion at least until the person is eighteen; the parents will need support for themselves. 

       The problem is that freedom for a person to be themselves is one thing, but how much should the feelings of the rest of the population be taken into account? I think we can agree that a gay couple should be able to walk hand in hand down the street, or a clearly male person should be allowed to wear female clothing, without experiencing prejudice. People may perceive immigrants as a threat to their livelihood, probably wrongly, but it is hard to see how being gay or trans can affect anyone else adversely. But the issue of shared toilets and shared spaces may be a thornier issue. Even if the prevalance of assault on women by people claiming to be trans women is extremely small, how much should people's feelings be taken into account in determiining public policy? In my office in an NHS Centre, during the last year before I retired, the staff toilets were turned into unisex toilets. I suspect that no-one dared complain even if they wanted to. My response to the circular email was to suggest that all the toilet seats should be left up after use; I presume people were used to my sense of humour by then. In reality, I didn't really have a problem with the person in the next cubicle being of the opposite gender, but there was a sense of awkwardness when we washed our hands next to each other. Of course the patient's toilets remained segregated, especially as these were mentai health patients. But if we as NHS staff accepted that we should get used to shared toilets, can we then insist that all toiltets and similar faciilites should be unisex? Suppose the vast majority of the population were against the idea for no better reason than that they didn't like it? It would not be comparable with the majority being prejudiced against certain minorities such as gay people; rather it would be an attempt to change people's personal behaviour? I am not saying that I have an answer to this, except that there is probably a middle ground somewhere. After all, if there is no God to dictate right and wrong, how are we to define right and wrong other than by reaching some kind of consensus? Should people on the extreme liberal or radical end of the opinion spectrum expect everyone else to agree to their opinion, any more than the extreme reactionary end should have that expectation? 

       

    • Hi Adrian,

      Some really pertinent points here.  Can we separate identity from behaviour - is who we are simply a description of what we do and think?  Are our habits a reflection of our identity or just laziness?  Of course the laziness could be part of our identity too.  It is fairly clear that perhaps a majority of human beings resist change, and find change difficult. We tend to try and avoid it as much as possible. As you and I are both of the older generation, we find so much of the behaviours and attitudes of the young difficult to comprehend let alone embrace!

      I only really know what happens in Wales (one of our closest friends is the clinical lead in a trans clinic in Cardiff) and she and her colleagues spend a great deal of time talking to trans people (of all ages) before any treatment regime is agreed.  And I am utterly assured that no irreversible procedures or treatements are given to minors. The difficulty with parents, as it was and still is with gay teenagers coming out, is that sometimes (by no means always or even mostly) parents are hostile and become part of the problem rather than the solution.  When does this become abusive to the child?

      How much account should be given to feelings in public policy?  I am an advocate of evidence policy, it then should be the responsibility of politicians and subject matter experts to explain an convince the votes of the rightness of any particular approach.  Representative democracy is not meant to be populist (it fails badly as we have seen over recent decades when it is treated thus).  My daughter works at an visitor attraction in Bristol where all the toilets are all unisex - no problems or complaints reported. Again perhaps because the majority clientelle is young!

      Accommodating dissent is always tricky - rather like the fundamentalists who try and dictate non-believers' sex lives.  You do what you think is right, but don't try and make everyone conform to your beliefs.  The gay issue has rather shown that it is often those people who should the loudest in opposition were and are very often those most deeply shut in their own closets.

      Take another policy example - should pacifists be exempt from paying the portion of tax that funds the military.  Should those who are childless be exempt from contributing towards schools. Should the well not pay for hospitals?  Should non-drivers pay for the roads, should those who don't use the railways pay towards Railtrack?  This is one of the critical things that we need to think about as a community, and was perhaps the central (largely undiscusssed) issue which lurked at the centre of the Brexit debacle.  How much should the common good be a good enough reason to subjugate local or national decision making?

      However back to identity.  I absolutely agree that tribalism and self interest are key common human personality traits, present in most people (probably all) to one degree or another.  How should this be managed as we seek to live in stable and harmonious societies?  Social democracy with mixed economies seems to be the best solution so far - problems occur, as we're seing in Britain, when either or both start to be challenged.  As we've seen more extreme economic policies it seems to have woken up a deeply unpleasant right wing nationalist populism that had been contained (at least in most of Europe) since the war.  I would suggest that people finding life more difficult, financially and in terms of job security and the rate of change, has been a major contributor to this.



       

  • Mark,

    Thank you.  There is a great deal in this piece that I agree with and find helpful - including your comment about immigration below.  But there are a few details which I feel need further consideration.

    For example, while I fully support the idea that history is key to understanding how we arrived at this point, and agree that a considerable part of our current law is based around heteronormative ideas, I feel your suggestion that "racial subjugation is baked into our understanding of gender" needs a bit more justification.  Given that, for most of history, most people lived in small communities which were essentially monocultural, isn't it more likely that the accepted practices of gender subjugation were applied to our understanding of race? 

    • Yes Paul, you're right.  This does need amplifying more.  The colonial context is probably key here, one that kept racial and gendered expectations fiercly contained.  Feminism for example has very different approaches from white communities than it does from black communities and others around the world.  Along with slavery colonialism imposed a strong binary approach to gender roles, that approach was used to police and often criminalise colonised men, women and those with non cis gender identities, or those with different sexual identies.  Perhaps it would be more helpful to say that white misogyny (and racism) is what has historically driven the understanding of gender identity; a determination to keep people in specific categories that make it easier to control and manage them. Bigotry finds nuance anathema.

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